Tag: Malaysia

Why We “Fought”


For posterity, and as a reminder of why we pursued what we did, quite strongly, more than a year ago.

Hi everyone

I like to share my personal thoughts with you as home group members, concerning the integration.

I don’t think the questions (which were raised yesterday) about what is the will of God for ICC and whether Pastor TF engagement fits that will, are questions which bother us in our home group. In any case I would like to share my thoughts with you, so that we have a (somewhat) clearly articulated position.

If you agree, then we can at least be clear in our mind about why we are doing this. We will also be better placed to share this with others in ICC.

My apologies for being “cheong heh” but if you can spare 10-15 minutes please read through. If you agree, you are welcomed to share this with others.

Finally, if you can, try to attend the prayer meetings. Apart from the integration, it is always good to pray together and to meet specifically to pray. For this integration, come together to pray as a church if you can. This is just so we can commit the matter to Him even as we plan and do the detailed work of implementing these plans.

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Why integrate? What is the will of God? Is it simply to plan and do our best for Him?

1. ICC has not had a pastor[1] since late 2005/early 2006. In the second half of 2009, efforts to find a pastor escalated and a number of candidates were identified and considered at length.

2. Prior to 2009, efforts to find a pastor were confined to limited number of candidates namely, Rev Jeremiah Yap and Rev TT Quah. Both these candidates have current and extensive portfolios in Australia as well as overseas. They are often overseas and their current commitments preclude them from responding to our needs in the manner we expect them to.

3. The candidates we have considered in 2009 have now been narrowed down to just one, namely Pastor Tham Fuan. I will refer to him as “TF”.

4. TF graduated from the Bible College of Victoria in 1994. BCV is a seminary accredited by the Australian College of Theology. Prior to 1994 TF was serving as a lay leader in his church in Malaysia and served as a leader in student ministry in Tasmania. From 1994 to-date, TF has been serving actively as a full-time servant of God. He continued his seminary training and obtained post graduate qualifications – an MA in Ministry from BCV in 2002.

5. TF has served as a pastor (in chronological order) in Canaan Church in KL Malaysia, FGA Melbourne in Box Hill and Cornerstone Church of Christ in Oakleigh East. He has been with Cornerstone since 2006.

6. We have heard TF preach in ICC for maybe 6-8 times now. Some of us have also had the opportunity to spend time with him socially a number of times. I believe many (if not all) share the view that he is a godly man who is committed and has a passion for the work of fulfilling the Great Commission and building His church. His pulpit messages have been godly biblical expository teachings which challenge listeners to take life changing actions and decisions.

7. TF was a board member of Wycliffe Malaysia and has participated in mission work both on-field and as a support mobilising intermediary. In fact ICC first initiated contact with TF as a result of Alex’s mission network which included Beram Kumar and STAMP, whom TF also knows and worked with.

8. Additionally TF is a sole pastor in Cornerstone, a church which shares the same statements of beliefs as ICC.

9. On a personal level, TF is married to Suan Choo and they have 2 daughters, Danica who is in Year 12 and Elysia who is in Year 7. We have been to his home for meals and they are not unlike any ordinary lively and loving family making their lives in the suburbs of Melbourne. Suan Choo works as an accountant in the city and Danica and Elysia attend Oxley College.

10. In all respects therefore, there is nothing about TF, his beliefs, teachings, work ethics, values, family lives and commitment to God and His work which creates any concern for me. To me he is as good a candidate as ICC can be blessed with.

11. As with all good candidates, he is presently serving in another church – Cornerstone Church of Christ. Cornerstone renewed the engagement of TF last year and under TF, the church has settled, stabilized, grown and is seeking to be even more effective for God.

12. I am glad TF is not seeking to resign from Cornerstone to come to ICC. This demonstrates his commitment to the flock he has been entrusted with. He is looking to ICC only as an expansion to provide both Cornerstone as well as another church (namely ICC) in Melbourne, with a common and enlarged platform for even greater effectiveness for God, so that we can better obey Him and be better agents of the gospel for Him.

13. We are therefore looking at engaging a pastor who has been and remains committed to the work of God as a full time pastor. There is neither any question about TF commitment to do this on a dedicated full time basis nor has there been any event in his life to render continuation of this work problematic.

14. Obviously TF will have his flaws. He is shy – we all know that. There have been remarks that he has a strong character and while I don’t see that as a flaw, let us just accept that it may be at this stage. That makes him human. However it is his good traits I am more interested in and all of these which have been identified, have no doubt been seen by Cornerstone as well. They too want him to continue serving as their pastor.

15. This brings to a logical question of whether ICC and Cornerstone can come together as one, with TF as the pastor for a new merged church.

16. To me, this requires much harder work than just engaging a pastor who doesn’t “come with a church”. However. I’d rather wear this hard work than engage a pastor who has for example, just left a church (making it necessary for us to consider why he left) or just joined the ministry (he would then lack the experience of TF) or any other circumstances which makes him available readily. The only other scenario is to get someone from overseas. This may not be the best route as such a person would have to acclimatise himself with the way churches function in Melbourne/Australia. As a relatively fresh migrant I see very different setting between churches in (say) Malaysia and in Melbourne/Australia.

17. And so we consider merger. Even as I looked closer, I begin to see why this can be a good thing.

18. Churches in Melbourne are a fragmented scene. The average number in a church in Melbourne is about 65. Every week thousands of churches some as small as 20-30 persons and most with less than 100, replicate resources and stretch what we have in order to carry out the most basic of church functions.

19. In each of those thousand of churches, we all replicate and invest time so that a church will have basic Sunday worship, prayer meetings, weekly or fortnightly bible studies and some (often annual) outreach programs. For a church of under 100 persons, these activities alone will keep most members busy.

20. Additionally, if you consider the 80-20 rule, you’d have pockets of 20 persons across Melbourne all doing the same thing – attending to the bare necessities for a church to function. Few have spare time to do more than the basic functions. If someone gets sick and needs visitation or attention then that stretches the resources of the church. If someone is moving house that stretches resources. If there is a wedding that really stretches the church resources. If a newcomer comes and needs follow up – ditto. Someone needs a lift – ditto. Someone has emotional needs – ditto. We spend our time tending to the most basic of needs to keep the church running (floating?). This is especially true in a church such as ICC, which has had no pastor for a number of years.

21. These are important functions but they must not erode the role the church has to play to fulfil the Great Commission.

22. Size isn’t everything, but it does tend to provide more resources so that efforts can be pooled and deployed more strategically. Resources must be targeted at outreach and mission work, at work which builds disciples and at work which teach and edifies members.

23. As someone has already mentioned (I think it was Pauline) Cornerstone also provides a plug to a critical demographic gap. Cornerstone comprise of a large proportion of young adults and young families. This complements the demographics of ICC. This age group is critical because it is a bridge between the 40/50+ and the youth (primary and high schoolers). Without this age group, primary and high schoolers may not have the required handles as to what sort of role models they can focus on, relate to and/or aspire to become.

24. As a merged church, I hope to see ICC (or whatever our new name may be) become better resourced to do the work of God which matters the most – outreach, evangelism and mission, and teaching each other the Word of God.

25. Pastor TF will be able to provide us with sound, biblical teachings with life changing challenges and do this consistently and systematically and members will be better placed to grow and become agents of the Great Commission and make disciples of those God place in their lives.

26. I cannot see how the above scenario can be against the will of God. I often say to others that God doesn’t lead us just by the weird and unusual stuff – ie dreams, visions, “word” etc.

27. God by and large leads and guides us by providing us with logical thoughts and preparing us to put those thoughts into perspective by making us go through a range of experiences. God is an orderly and logical being as evidenced by His creation. Why would He lead us in ways other than in an orderly and logical fashion? Why are we not confident that when we think logically and plan in an orderly fashion it isn’t being lead by God? Against those thoughts and plans, I’d pray and search the scriptures. The Word of God ultimately has to be the arbiter of whether it is against the will of God for us to be doing something.

28. If what we have logically and orderly sought the Lord, planned and determined – and therefore confident God has lead us in an orderly and logical way – cannot be refuted by any biblical principles, then we should be confident to move on. We cannot orderly and logically plan for example, to kill, steal or hurt our neighbours. Where what we have committed to the Lord and thought and prayed through and considered all facts and circumstances in a responsible, engaging and wise manner, and there has been no biblical principle adduced to suggest otherwise, we should be confident to move ahead.

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Words of Weezdom from a little monarch


The Sultan of Selangor in Malaysia is perhaps thinking his little throne is getting too small and since he is perhaps too old to be gallivanting around the world in a taxpayer funded yacht or crashing through some inter-continental motor race in (probably also taxpayer funded) vintage car (or perhaps the Malaysian government is too broke to fund such royal excesses), Sharafuddin Idris Shah now wants to try being a lawyer.

His statement on the Selangor state religious department raid on a church function (“JAIS-DUMC raid”), probably illustrates or magnifies the state of confusion in Malaysia in matters of admnistration of law.

The Sultan is a constitutional monarch of a state in the Malaysian federation. Since the Sultan did not have much education, someone should whisper to him what that means. I’m pretty sure he isn’t a trained lawyer. In fact I’m pretty sure he didn’t even have any tertiary education. And since he probably never had a real job as well, someone really should make it as simple as possible but make sure he understand not just  what the role of a constitutional monarch is, but also how the legal system works.

I guess the Chinese Bishop of the Catholic church in Malaysia (Bishop Paul Tan Chee Ing) has probably come as close to calling the Sultan an untrained and therefore likely misguided person in this matter, as the religious and racial bigotry in Malaysia would allow. Bishop Paul Tan spoke clearly, intelligently and bravely. That is no guarantee he would be heeded. Not so long ago he would have been taken in to be a guest of the government in Kamunting.

I have stopped following the news in Malaysia for a while now, and I guess I am reminded now why that is so.  With people like the Sultan of Selangor issuing statements like that, Malaysian news remains best unread.

Excerpts from Malaysiakini today:

DUMC-Jais: Bishop troubled by sultan’s statement
Terence Netto
6:45PM Oct 10

Catholic Bishop Paul Tan Chee Ing described the statement from the Sultan of Selangor on the Selangor Islamic Affairs Department (Jais) report on alleged proselytisation of Muslims by Christians at the Damansara Utama Methodist Centre last August as “dipped in the ambiguity that would make wanton accusations against Christians no more difficult in the future than it is now.”

bishop paul tan“Begging the Tuanku’s pardon, how is it possible to assert that there were attempts to deviate the faith of Muslim attendees at the dinner function at the DUMC but there is, then, not sufficient evidence to prefer charges,” queried the titular head of Catholics in the Malacca-Johor diocese, in an immediate response to a statement on the matter issued today by the sultan.

“If there is not enough evidence, there ought to be no imputation of wrongdoing – it’s as simple as that!” exclaimed Tan (left), who is concurrently president of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of Malaysia.

“As it stands now, the sultan’s statement paints the Christian organisers of the dinner function as having been given a discharge not amounting to acquittal from accusations that they proselytised to Muslims,” he asserted.

“I would have much preferred no statement at all to one that is neither here nor there,” offered the Jesuit-trained prelate.

“Christians have waited patiently for exoneration from false accusations by people whose intent is to grandstand on behalf of their losing causes,” said the bishop.

“It’s a good thing the general election is imminent, because there seems to be no let-up in this ugly campaign of innuendo and insinuation against Christians, so that the ballot box becomes our only recourse from persecution by vile slander,” he concluded.

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How it is pitched


On the latest political polls… whereas Fairfax and News Limited are saying Labor is polling 26% down from its previous record low of 27%, 774 ABC piped that Julia Gillard has an approval rating of 35%, up from 34%. In that 10 minute window that was my drive to work, nothing was said about the record low Labor is polling.

So why isn’t the ABC made subject to the media inquiry being bandied about, if examples of bias occur so easily?

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Gillard and Media Inquiry – More like Malaysia Everyday


Gillard looks more like Najib Razak every day

Step by step, the Gillard Government is becoming more and more like the UMNO Government in Malaysia. The issue now is control over media. Never mind what Senator Conroy said the inquiry is about – it is about shutting down criticism over the Gillard Government.

See this interview with Bob Brown, PM of Australia – at least he can be credited with honesty in this case. He said it is about controlling the Murdoch Press.

I dont like the Murdoch press myself – things like The Sun paper in the UK may be a lot of fun when you are young or drunk (or both) but it is appalling in all other respects. The way they (News of the World and Murdoch Press) go about getting leads and breaching privacy of the most vulnerable, is really disgraceful. There is no reason however, to think what happened in the UK is also a problem for Australia.

The only problem with the press in Australia is with Julia Gillard and Bob Brown, the Prime Minister of Australia. They dont want criticism. They want to shut down or control their critics. That is very Malaysian. Gillard and Najib Razak are looking more and more alike every day.

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Asylum Seekers “at risk of persecution in Malaysia”


The High Court of Australia heard some damaging statements about Malaysia today:

See this article:

THE Gillard government‘s “Malaysian Solution” has been thrown into disarray after being ruled unlawful by the High Court.

The judgment of the full bench, handed down to a packed courtroom in Canberra, found Immigration Minister Chris Bowen‘s declaration of Malaysia as a country to which asylum-seekers could be sent for processing was “invalid”.

Chief Justice Robert French said the court ordered Mr Bowen and his department be restrained from sending asylum-seekers to Malaysia.

“The declaration made … was made without power and is invalid,” Justice French said.

Lawyers for 41 asylum-seekers were granted a temporary injunction over three weeks ago after appealing against their forced transfer to Kuala Lumpur from Christmas Island.

They were the first group of asylum-seekers to be moved to Malaysia after the government formally signed the new deal in July, which will see 800 boatpeople sent to the country in return for Australia accepting 4000 confirmed refugees from Malaysia.

          Debbie Mortimer SC, acting for the group, argued the government’s policy was not lawful because Malaysia was not a signatory to the UN refugee convention and therefore did not provide enough legal protection.

She previously told the High Court in a two-day hearing the plaintiffs were at risk of persecution in Malaysia due to their religious beliefs.

Ms Mortimer also questioned whether Mr Bowen had the power under the law he relied upon to forcibly remove people to another country.

“Fundamental rights are at stake . . . liberty, freedom of movement . . . and freedom from assault,” she said.

“The proposed conduct of the commonwealth intervenes with all three of these rights.”

Ms Mortimer also claimed Mr Bowen would breach his role as guardian by sending unaccompanied minors to Malaysia.

But Commonwealth Solicitor-General Stephen Gageler SC, acting for Mr Bowen, argued Malaysia needed only to guarantee it would not send refugees back home to fulfil protection obligations.

He previously told the court that although Malaysia was not a signatory on UN human rights conventions, “the Malaysian authorities generally co-operate with the UN High Commissioner for Refugees”.

Related Coverage

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Gillard inching closer to Najib Razak


Julia Gillard‘s telephone call to John Hartigan to spike a story by Glen Milne of The Australian, brings her government ever closer to the style of the UMNO Government. Both face certain doom and are living on borrowed time.

See this piece.

The point of the story was her judgment of people around her. Her involvement with Bruce Wilson, someone convicted of embezzlement of union funds, ought to speak volumes of her ongoing support for Craig Thomson. Thomson’s position as one of the 76 (together with the monkeys aka independents) no doubt is the bigger dimension here but the bottom line is her judgment.

Julia Gillard has as the sort of baggage Najib Razak is probably familiar with. Scorpenes submarine and Altantuya Shaaribuu are of much darker varieties to taint Najib Razak but Bruce Wilson and Craig Thomson, with their union rubbish, smell almost as bad.

Certainly, calling newspaper editors to control what the public reads, is a stench no Australian Prime Minister should share with a Malaysian regime.

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Gillard Labor Minority Government … Ever So UMNOesque


If the allegations are true, Craig Thomson would be very much at home in Malaysia. Unfortunately I have in my past life, been in situations and circumstances which landed me in places I didn’t really want to be. Senior politicians of the ruling parties would often be found in these places, accompanied by unsavoury business identities who almost certainly paid for whatever services sought or were made available.

The difference now of course is that Craig Thomson was apparently alone when he allowed his pecadilloes to go untamed. What’s worse, if the allegations are true, he stands to be charged for misappropriating funds. He sounds like a really tragic man. He could however, be the saviour of Australia at this point in time.

He appears to be a politican close to the likes of Mark Arbib and Karl Bitar – those pollies who somehow managed to build reputations of themselves as oily manipulative men who wouldn’t baulk at doing questionable deeds. If one takes a straw poll, those two men would probably be among the most mistrusted characters in the country. That they were the ones who brokered the deal within NSW Labor to avoid banruptcy for Craig Thomson and the catastrophic consequences that would bring for Julia Gillard and her government would only further tar this present government. One would have thought that would be hard to do but there you go.

I think with each passing week, the Julia Gillard minority Labor Government inches ever closer to the status of the UMNO Government of Malaysia, which is saying something. The convoy of no confidence wasn’t in Canberra today – it has circled all over Australia for months now. For the umpteenth time, bring on the elections – please….

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Global Warming and the Carbon Tax … Nuts.


Want to know what a recent expert study on climate change says? See the following excerpts, and you’d think the whole thing is uncertain enough to avoid implementing the carbon tax scheme, but then again we’re dealing with Gaia land maniacs here.

The report: Dr Robert Lindzen and YS Choi, as published in the Asia Pacific Journal of Atmospheric Sciences

The excerpts:

  • Doubling of CO2 will only result in a 1 deg increase in warming (as opposed to at least 1.5 – 5.0 deg in other reports);
  • Simple regression methods used by several existing papers generally exaggerate positive feedbacks and even show positive feedbacks when actual feedbacks are negative;
  • The foregoing imply that the existing models are exaggerating climate sensitivity;
  • The current models have serious coupling issues, where warming may have been wrongly associated with other factors; and
  • The study was a follow-up on a previous one, addressing some feedback and criticisms on its previous approach.

It’s a serious, normal scientific endeavour, which shows if nothing else, climate change is a an issue on which the jury is still well and truly out. Given this uncertainty, why is the Gillard Government and her mob especially Bob Brown, Christine Milne and the Greens in general so hell bent on wrecking our economy, especially since even if the science is a settled issue, what Australia does in addressing emission will ever only have a totally negligible effect? Whatever Australia does, if it does it alone, will not change anything one bit.

In a way, this Labor Government is very similar to the UMNO government in Malaysia. Sick.

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Malaysia On Hold – High Court asked to review


What Chris Bowen and Julia Gillard refused to consider, will now be looked at by the High Court of Australia. The Malaysian Solution for the asylum seeker issue was never a satisfactory one, principally because Malaysia treats refugees and asylum seekers badly and Malaysia has a poor human rights record generally. Maybe in selecting a partnership with Malaysia, Australia is betraying its true colours in matters of human rights and it has always only paid lip service on such matters.

Following is an extract from The Australian today:

Mr Manne made it clear that Malaysia’s human rights record, and particularly its treatment of refugees, would be put on trial.

“Amongst the claims that are being made among many of those that we are acting for are that they in fact would face the real risk of being persecuted in Malaysia due to the human rights situation there,” he said.

“Malaysia has a long standing record of very serious mistreatment of asylum-seekers and refugees including, as we know, arbitrary arrest, arbitrary detention, beatings, whippings, canings and even deportation. A number of our clients have made very strong claims of fearing that they would not be protected in Malaysia.”

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Potter, Camp and School again


Kiddo returned from her trip to renaissance nests late Tuesday night and on Wednesday night, we bade farewell to Mr Potter et al. See this article by Tim Dalrymple for a fun take on whether Christians should have anything to do with these tales of life, courage and overcoming.

On Friday night some of us from cell went for dinner at Malaysian Inn in Doncaster and early Saturday morning we took off for Phillip Island for the church camp.

We had Luis Cabral from the Asian Christian Fellowship at Rowville speak on Friday night and Saturday, and Tham Fuan our local pastor finished off the camp on Sunday morning – all in a great camp with plenty of time to chat with and know more people.

School’s back to work today, including MST for me. Hopefully it is less hectic and more enjoyable this semester.

 

 

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