Category: Walking With God

Being there


Cover of "Being There (Deluxe Edition)"
Being There

I had a meeting last Friday arvo from 3pm and when I got back to my desk at 4pm, I couldn’t believe what I saw on the screen – England had crumbled and had lost something like 6 wickets for 9 runs. After checking I had no urgent calls or emails to respond to, I quickly went to the tea room and joined a few other blokes who have been watching the game.

The day ended with Australia well on top so the unpleasant scenes of Australia’s first innings were well and truly erased.

As usual, I was very tired on Friday night and when we met up for dinner at the Enrik café with Jason and Mel, I was just happy to be in a busy but pleasant restaurant so close to home with Tress and some very dear friends. Dinner was very good and we just stayed on and chatted for a bit before leaving.

It was raining on Sat – the weekend forecast had been a wet one – so I couldn’t work on the garden. After the usual dry cleaning run, I said to Tress the wet morning would mean less congestion at the new fruit and veg market on Canterbury Road at Forest Hill (Strawberry Point) so we quickly went over and got our green grocery for the week, and then we drove to Mount Waverley and met Simon, Tress’ hairdresser. A hair cut had been long overdue for me and much as I was sure Simon had barely woken up when he worked on my mop top, I was glad I had it done.

After lunch (at Madam Kwong’s Kitchen of course) and a quick visit to a property auction, we (or I) spent the rest of the arvo just vegging out in front of the telly, watching the cricket. My right Achilles had caused me grief anyway so it was a perfect excuse to just spend a cool and wet Sat arvo doing nothing except watch Michael Clarke and David Warner chalk up satisfying tons.

The rain continued pouring on Sunday. There was an AGM after the service and Tress and I decided to stay for that meeting, to get a soak in of some of the issues the church had faced in the past year. It ended close to 2pm. We went to Madam Kwong’s Kitchen again after that and since it continued to pour, we just decided to go to a shopping place and walked around.

The service was a thanksgiving one and numerous people publicly gave thanks for a whole range of matters. A familiar pattern emerged very quickly – that of life’s many challenges. Often, these challenges require solutions. A way forward to resolve the matter at hand would always bring relief and pave a way towards a brighter future.

What’s become crystal clear however is that other than solution or a way forward, often those facing life’s challenges just need someone at their side. This person need not have any answers – just being there to provide support and perhaps add strength, clarity of mind to deal with the issues or challengers and the assurance that no matter what happens, there is someone who would be there for them. That someone would certainly help countervail any tendency to over-internalise the challenges one faces.

Facing challenges is probably another one of life’s certainty. In recent weeks, we have seen a cancer patient succeeding, heard about another patient failing, seen a young man battling depression, been with a couple who lost their first born infant child, and been touched by other departures of others who have spent considerably more years.

In all of these experiences, the presence of another as they navigate their paths in dealing with the challenges, has always been what’s deeply treasured. Being there for someone matters. Praying for someone is often a throwaway line used in such circumstances and prayers may or may not happen. The Lord may or may not intervene. But as members of the community we find ourselves in, being there for one who is faced with these challenges, is often what we can and ought to do. Sometimes, like Peter Sellers, “Being there” is what matters. I need to think about responding to this more meaningfully.

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Man Changed, God Hasnt


Some interesting thoughts from the Business Spectator offshoot, Technology Spectator website:

  1. The world is becoming more crowded, older and lonelier. The crowding will mainly be in sub-Saharan Africa (contributing 20% or population growth) and China and the Sub-Continent (contributing 50%).
  2. China has more than 20% of world population but less than 2% of world oil. Oil will continue to be more expensive as will most other stuff. The world will have to cope with living with less.
  3. Mobile technology and communication is the moving force for the world today. This changes traditional allocation of roles such as between producers and consumers and between the collective formal structure and individuals. Mobile communication machines such as smart phones will outsell PCs by next year.
  4. Technological and knowledge developments have been expansive and pervasive, and costs of manufacturing machines which connect technology, people and data in smarter and more sophisticated ways are facilitating a connection (connectedness) and exchange which make learning and adapting a rapid process.
  5. The world economy is being driven by a different engine now. China, India, Russia and Brazil have become the dominant and dynamic forces and the bulk of world money, trade, and production will move towards these countries.

On one level, this looks like a very ripe harvest where evangelism is concerned. This however is only from the perspective of demographics and infrastructure. The soft side – how and whether these developments and changes have any impact or effect on the human perception of his need for God – would probably not change very much.

I wonder if the unbelievable rate of change we have seen in recent years have taken man nearer or further from a sense of their need for God. I mean, the bulk of the stuff we use regularly today, was probably non-existent not too long ago. In my back pack to and from work every day, the umbrella, lunch box and security tag to my office building are probably stuff familiar to someone in say, the year 2000. Maybe my car keys as well.

But those are items I don’t use very much. The umbrella has been used more often this week but other than that it is seldom touched. The lunch box is opened and sandwich fished and that was it. The box is not even looked at till I got home. The security tag and car keys, ditto – only the start and end of the working day.

The remainder 2 items in my back pack used many times throughout the day are: the phone and the computer. 10 years ago, my Treo 280 was state of the art but it has probably just a fraction of the functions and capacity of the iPhone today. I now use my iPhone 20-30 times a day. Other than calls and text messages, I use it for web browsing (several times a day) emailing (every hour or so) book reading (15-20 minutes to and from work), weather checking (2-3 times a day), scheduling (2-3 times a day), listening to radio and music (15-20 minutes to and from work). I use the other item – an iPad – very much in the same way, except when I need to do some additional work such as make notes on my readings or write an email longer than a sentence or two or work on an essay or stuff like that. All of these activities are probably alien to someone (in the way they are carried out) commuting to and from work on the public transport system in the year 2000.

Back then, the external factors are different too. George W Bush was a first term President in a world contemplating energy challenges and peak oil was an emerging concern. Clinton had sealed some important victories in Eastern Europe and pushed middle-east peace process in a promising direction. China was an energetic adolescent fast becoming a virile young man and seeking to rule the roost. John Howard was also riding high and fast becoming quite a figure in world political leadership. With the dotcom bust dust settled, emerging technology entities like Google are promising a second nirvana. Exotic new financial instruments like ABSs and CDOs were starting to promise the rainbow’s end and were making home ownership every American’s dream come true.

I don’t know – can’t recall – what other external factors were there making and shaping thoughts and aspirations then but 10 or so years hence I’m not sure if any or all of these changes have made any difference in man’s perception of his need for God.  If anything, I get a sense that we are nearer than ever to a Babel incident and man seems to think we’re doing ok and we’ll plot our own route and end, without any regard for our Creator.

We ought to engage the world – especially the youth – at a level which is more intense and robust as it has ever been. In many ways, new channels and new methods have come up for the gospel to be communicated in new, refreshing and more effective ways than ever before. The platform to present a cogent, orthodox and biblically true gospel is there and we need to provide the content and widen the reach in these media.  The immutability of God – He is the same yesterday, today and forever – should mean the modern mobile man can come to know the God incarnate of first century Palestine and who remains the God who loves just as much today.  

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Don’t like the menu? Next church please


United now has just a 3-point margin with the next home game against Chelsea, second on the table with plenty of steam and luck. There are just 3 games left to play. It’s good to be in a dog fight of this nature at this time of the year.

“This time of the year” – it’s May already. A third of the year is gone. LifeGate, the new church, has started to settle into some rhythm. The merger was first broached officially at board level, maybe October/November 2009. In September 2010, members of both ICC and Oakley Cornerstone voted for the merger. We have been working since to work at the joints and put things together, always mindful that we are simply laying the groundwork to be prepared for whatever God wants to use this church for. We know it is to fulfil the Great Commission and to bring glory to His name. But exactly what the strategies and activities are towards that end – we’re still working on those, putting together the numerous pieces.

I’m still on the church Board. It is only a temporary Board. Its tenure is for no longer than 1 year. I hadn’t wanted a role in this capacity. I was going to do my studies quietly and be an ordinary but active church member. It was incumbent on me however, not to make things harder than they already must be for the pastor and his new team. People of similar maturity and seniority were turning down roles or at least indicating their desire to “step down”, such has been the bristling effect of the last days of ICC leadership. I could not say no without feeling I will be but adding to the challenges already facing pastor, perhaps thus aiding the enemy. So I said yes, thinking I can become that ordinary member after the tenure of the current board.

But being in the Board entails hard work and shouldering responsibilities. The work of spending time with people, thinking through and communicating issues, praying and seeking the Lord for direction, reading the Scriptures to be certain the church is not departing from its teachings, identifying concerns and needs of members and doing whatever possible to address them, attending long late meetings – all these are hard work.

The hardest challenge is recognising that no matter how hard one works and no matter how well intentioned the leaders may be, the church cannot meet every single need of every single member. But the comfort is in knowing that the church doesn’t have to. All it has been asked to do is to build each other up and it can do no more than lay the path for members to seek the Lord themselves. Each must discover how he or she is to serve, and all the leaders want is for members to show a commitment towards the church.

In the context of Australia, I am discovering the truth of the consumer approach to church meaning Christians who look to church as outlets peddling services. If a church offers something I can consume then I’d be there. The catchphrase is “for a season” – ie at a particular phase of my life, this church meets my needs, so I attend this church. This church provides goods and services suited to my needs for now, so I am there. I attend its services, contribute my time and least mentioned but often pertinent, my money also goes to this church. It is a consumer approach – as long as the products and services are those which suit me, it has my custom. The phrase “for a season” is often used by Christians who want to adopt the consumer approach and move on – albeit temporarily – to the “next outlet”. I accept some Christians uproot for more fundamental doctrinal or similar reasons but I believe moves for these reasons are far outnumbered by moves motivated by a consumer mentality.

To be fair a consumer approach to church attendance is not entirely wrong. After all, the church is there to meet the needs of its members – to help build each other up. The ugliness lies instead, in the lie which is based on this half application of the truth of building each other up. Building each other up is what the church is there for, but church attendance is not based on just it meeting my needs. It is also based on me building up the church so that it can meet the needs of others. In that sense it is more a co-operative than a consumer model.

I believe commitment is what makes it more a co-operative styled model as opposed to a consumer approach. A consumer approach means I am there to “consume” what the church has to offer. If the menu for the day is not what I am looking for I move on to the next outlet – “for a season” – which offers that which I need or want. This model cannot be an ongoing, sustainable one for church life because the building up entails a mutual edification which must work both ways. A relationship is a two-way traffic. The two-way traffic involves both giving and receiving by every member. Everyone gives. Everyone receives. The timing may vary – ie I may be a contributor today, this week, month or year but I may then be a recipient in the next cycle or at some point in my church life. Or, at any one time, I give more than I receive, or vice versa. It cannot be a case where I am looking only to contribute or receive and if I can’t do either I move to the next church and so on. That is a model which is contrary to the very essence of church.

Hopefully more on this at a later entry. For now, it is time to ruminate United’s chances. For this season – 🙂 – I had sought at the start, only to give my support as a life-long supporter, with no expectation of anything in return. It has already given me much more than I had expected. I didn’t like the team make up – the menu – but I stayed, as I have for so many years, and will continue to even long after Sir Alex decides to call it a day.

Regards,Ian

Sent from my iPhinity (and beyond)

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Sarcasm in theological academe


I can’t believe that having enjoyed myself in a deliciously instructive and educational treatise on the imminence of the Kingdom of God, Joel B Green et al (including I. H. Marshall no less) punctuated the discussion with this: “It is not therefore an exaggeration to say that sometimes the parables have a polemical tone in addition to their usage to illustrate the kingdom of God“. I would have thought: “like duh…” but it is nice to have an almost dead pan sarcasm in such work…

If only I could read on all night.

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Second Experience? Hmmm


We have been doing a series on fundamental Christian beliefs in church and a couple of weeks ago we looked at the topic of the Holy Spirit. Unsurprisingly, the issue of a second experience (of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit I guess) came up, albeit cursorily. I was thinking about it when preparing some thoughts for cell discussion on Friday and continued thinking about it on the periphery. A short while ago I came across these statements:

1. The baptism with the Holy Spirit occurs the moment a person is saved. It is not the same experience as salvation but happens at the time of salvation. It is not a second experience following conversion.

2. God has given believers everything in Christ. When we are saved we are complete in Him. We lack nothing. There is nothing else for Him to give to us.

3. Nowhere are believers commanded to receive any second blessing that would give them power. All power is already available.

4. The power of the Holy Spirit working in a persons life is something that should be desired. Some who have legitimately experienced the Spirit’s power label the encounter as the baptism with the Holy Spirit whereas the Scripture calls this experience the filling of the Holy Spirit. previously mentioned, everything has been provided for us upon conversion. We only need to appropriate what God has already done for us.

I think I agree with these statements and am reasonably at peace with not having a second experience, although who is to limit God – He can show me otherwise.

 

In the meantime, I have to contend with the historicity of the Messianic Jesus seen through the incident of the Triumphant Entry…sigh indeed….

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Inapt Words from “Prayercentral.net”


Choosing the right words to say at the right time is a virtue encouraged and praised by the Scriptures (Prov 25:11, 15:23). The converse is also true. We need to consider or have a basis for, what we say especially in the present age where both the spoken or written word can be recorded, broadcast and disseminated widely and quickly.

Which brings me to the below prayer notes, which someone kindly forwarded to me this morning. Tress and I have been watching the news of the Japan earthquake through the long weekend, on several channels – Sky, CNN, BBC, Fox and of course our very own Nine and Seven. I was on my laptop quite a bit yesterday and I intermittently jumped on BBC, New York Times and our own Herald Sun, The Age and The Australian websites. I also checked on Malaysiakini site now and then, which also had pretty up-to-date coverage of the quake, tsunami and nuclear plant tragedies in Japan.

Not one of the above sources mentioned anything about breakdown in authority and security, or about injustice or corruption. Japan is a first world/developed country. Corruption and social unrest attributable to political upheavals or despotic behaviour are traits you almost never associate with Japan. In fact the contrary is true and the images I see on the media are of an orderly – unbelievably orderly – management of the crises. Many experts are differentiating Chernobyl from Fukushima in the way each dealt/is dealing with the nuclear plant crisis. Fukushima is almost an embodiment of preparedness, discipline and orderly execution of emergency measures. The early administration of iodine to minimise the effect of radiation is a case in point. The damage we see is due largely to the tsunami and not the earthquakes as Japanese construction is probably leading the world in earthquake-proof features.

So what is it that “prayercentral.net” knows which many of us don’t, which made it write the way it did? If the basis of this writing is unsubstantiated waffle it is very likely based on prejudice – that just because this is an Asian disaster, the elements of injustice, corruption, breakdown in authority and security all abound. If this is the case, then “prayercentral.net” needs prayer itself. Lots of it.

What the Japanese need now is prayer, no one doubts that. What they also need are apt words which show mercy, compassion and love. Not rebuke and warnings. I hope “prayercentral.net” either explains itself or amend this piece.

Here’s the link and the text of what’s there now:

http://prayers.prayercentral.net/?page_id=5&target=Japanese+brothers+and+sisters&pronoun=group&cat=86

Break the Power of Corruption in Japanese brothers and sisters

Scripture: Woe to those who enact evil statutes, And to those who constantly record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice, And rob the poor of My people of their rights… -Isaiah 10:1

Prayer: Lord, You are the great judge over all the earth, watching the wicked and the good. You see the deeds and the intentions of the heart. Only You, Lord are worthy to sit on the throne of judgment.

Lord, in every crisis there is a breakdown of authority, and security. I know You hate injustice and corruption, so I bring to Your attention the corruption in Japanese brothers and sisters during this crisis, and I ask Lord, that You would hear the cries of the weak and powerless, and break the power of corruption in this place.

Lord, for the good of the people, I ask that You would swiftly judge acts of corruption today. Give no place for the wicked to think they have escaped. Leave no room for looters and others to steal away what has been provided for the needy. Make an example today Lord of someone, so that others may see and fear.

Vindicate the weak and the poor, and break the power of wickedness that oppresses them. In Jesus name, amen.

Let us know you prayed…

Regards,Ian

Sent from my iPigeon

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Infallibility and Inerrancy – The Chicago Statement


In catching up with MST work, I had to go through the Chicago Statement on inerrancy. This statement jumped out at me: “…the sequence of revealed messages ceased. Henceforth the Church was to live and know God by what He had already said, and said for all time”. This was in the exposition section at the end of the 19 Articles. It goes on to say this: “No new revelation (as distinct from Spirit-given understanding of existing revelation) will be given until Christ comes again“.

The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy was signed in 1978 with signatories which include J.I. Packer, R. C. Sproul and the one I admired immensely, John Warwick Montgomery. In my still lay mind, I cannot find any reason not to subscribe to this statement – every one of the 19 Articles. I understand there may be some issues with autographic texts and the resulting implications but the exposition has addressed this too. It stated that th authority of the Scripture is in no way jeopardized by the fact that the copies which are available are not entirely error free.

Much work is needed still to get on top of this issue but I am very happy to start with this Statement.

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Clefts and Crevices


Tonight we’re making our way to the City Hall building at the corner of Swanston and Collins. The MacRob speech nights are always held there. We went the year before last and found out what a long drawn out night it can be. Coupled with the fact that this time of the year it starts to warm up badly, we skipped it last year. We were going to skip it this year as well but then kiddo gave us a reason to attend – so we’re heading there tonight and I’m bracing myself again… for good cause this time. At least I have something pleasant to look forward to. It has been a very stressful time at work.

My decision earlier this year to pull back and not trade my soul over work, has started to meet payback times. Ever so gradually but very surely, I am now considered “not with it” and my reputation for commitment and role as “a player” is long gone. I’d come in any given morning to discover that heaps had gone on the night before and by the time email traffic slowed down some time before midnight, the issues I left behind a little before 6pm had been resolved by the driven supermen or superwomen.

Anyway, I did my BCV exam last Saturday and have felt more relaxed these past few days. It has been hanging over my head in recent weeks, as I discovered how difficult it was to remember whatever I have studied. I was re-discovering the stress of academic examinations all over again. The learning has been tremendous however and I’m sufficiently stimulated to do more and actually found myself looking up next semester’s subjects for enrolment ideas. I guess I just want to be ready and arm myself, to be in a better position to assess what I hear or read from time to time.

In a couple of days, big things are happening. My sister (from Penang) and her family are visiting and they’re bringing mum along, as well as a nephew who lives in China. So our house will be a little crowded…but fun. Their timing is impeccable, as kiddo has decided to get baptised this Sunday. This is just a great opportunity for some really meaningful family time together. In addition, this is a first baptism service for the “new” (merged) church of ours and surely our Lord has something to do with all of this timing, so I am very grateful to God.

What Shall We Do With a Mistaken Speaker?


Follow up exchange – post edited

To Joe Bloggs:

Ok bro – thanks again as always. I thank God again for you, and I have much to learn from you, taikoh!

You may have to wait a while re Gordon Fee. His book is a massive volume, nearing 1,000 pages apparently! I’m heading to Koorong tonight while the sale is still on!

—–Original Message—–

From: Joe Bloggs

Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2010 5:13 PM

To: Teh, Ian

Cc:

Subject: Re: RE: RE: Strange day !

I am also curious what Gordon Fee has to say and await your conclusion with anticipation.

The issue of speaking in tongues is debated over the decades and I don’t think there is any satisfactory conclusion on both sides. For me, it is a matter of accepting our differences and moving on to build His kingdom. It is what binds us.

As you well know, I have high opinion of your views and had not and would not seek to curtail you in any way only to caution you in particular on this topic of speaking in tongues that you might not get the answer you want that it could be a matter of accepting the difference of opinion and moving on. I see the big picture of people on both sides wanting to please and serve God with all their hearts.

I was not trying to stir or provoke anything when I approached you on Sunday, and emailed you today. I was coming from, as I said previously, a love angle, that I felt for you, that knowing your views on matters such as this, that you might have a discomfort sitting through a sermon like that and hence purely out of concern for your wellbeing, I raise the subject to hopefully, let you get it out to hopefully move on. I am being totally honest here.

I say again that I had some concern through the sermon but felt that the Speakers are probably in desperation and clutching onto anything that gives them hope and articulating them. I also felt that perhaps some of our people (my opinion, there are probably one or two, at least) needed to hear certain aspects of the sermon. So I feel we should just move on from here…

Sabar la Bro !

———————————

Earlier Email Exchange: Names Substituted…

Hi Joe Bloggs

Gordon Fee is a theologian with a twist – he is a revered academic in Regent College in Vancouver who is an ardent Pentecostal proponent. This background makes him a writer not to be missed, for someone like me.

I too would rather forget about such discourse. It often leads to tiring discussions with no new insights or edifies anyone.

I too like taking the high road. This is the best way to ensure we continue to obey the Lord in terms of building each other up, and therefore building His Kingdom.

However, we cannot always avoid getting our hands dirty in trying to bottom things out, as much as we can. We have to – at some point. I feel we have a duty to do this. To ignore such details can be a form of laziness or neglect too and can be a disservice to our members.

Personally for example, I have attended Wednesday PM’s and be totally lost and not able to think or concentrate because others around me are speaking in tongues in a manner which makes it impossible for one to do anything other than (1) to also speak in tongues myself or (2) switch off completely.

Often in these meetings, I have no idea what went on, didn’t feel any touch from the Lord or understood Him or my brothers or sisters better and generally just not able to contribute or derive anything. I will be honest with you and say often I feel I have wasted my time trying to follow proceedings. I go anyway because this is a body activity and we need corporate prayer and I have to put aside personal dislikes.

What happens however if the PM phenomenon is replicated during Sunday Service? Do you not think a prevalence of messages from the pulpit such as last Sunday’s increases the possibility of this happening? I’m afraid we’d be closer to approaching the sort of chaos Paul warned us about in his letters to the Corinthian church. That would be a warning bell for me and I am particularly sensitive to such messages because I cannot find any biblical teaching to support this.

Maybe I have been wrong and maybe Gordon Fee is the one to teach me this, but until someone instructs me clearly what the Scripture teaches on this, how does one just “go with the flow”? Going with the flow can be a carnal thing. It is the hallmark of the “Day of the Aquarius” generation of post modernism where the truth is less important than how we treat one another.

Don’t get me wrong, Joe Bloggs – I understand the need to emphatise with others and obey the Lord in terms of loving our brothers and sisters. How else are we to build each other and the body of Christ? I also appreciate the enormity of the challenge the Speakers must be going through. For all my thoughts about legal battles such as the one Speaker appears to be fighting, I don’t for one moment underestimate what he is going through.

We must accept that we can and must separate a questioning attitude from our ability to love and show concern. They are not mutually exclusive. I can doubt what you say and question your basis for saying it but also (at the same time) love you and help you and support you in what you are going through.

Also, at no point do I question that it is never by might or by power, and I constantly seek to rely on the Holy Spirit in all that I do. That does not mean however that don’t ask, question, do, think, plan etc. In fact can anyone challenge the proposition that when one is able to exercise one’s own faculties the most, one is best able to deliberately and consciously acknowledge and rely on the power of the Holy Spirit?

Speaker’s wife message appears to be: pray in tongues and see the results. Is this biblical? James teaches us that it is the prayer of a righteous man – not tongues – which is effective. Is she suggesting those who don’t pray in tongues are less effective or are somehow missing out in some way?

I don’t think I have been quick to comment – I have not shared my thoughts with anyone. I said something only because you approached me on Sunday. I’m afraid you were the “agent provocateur” this time! 🙂

Your encouragement to me has always been to be open. To me that means to learn more and find out more, not to accept all things in an unquestioning manner and to accept all as the right teaching. If I come to understand the errors of my ways, I will change and accept the right way. That to me is what being open means, not to cease questioning. We have a duty to point out what is wrong. Sometimes by the time we observe an effect, it may have reached a stage where heaps more work is required. It is better to arm ourselves and then point out these defects before it hits the airwaves.

“Listening to the Spirit in the Text” is another Gordon Fee I am reading now. I think it is a prelude and prepares me for his more substantive book: “God’s Empowering Presence: The Holy Spirit in the Letters of Paul”. I am hoping God can speak to me even more clearly through His servant through these books.

It is a long journey, and we need each other – people of different make up’s. You have taught me how to show more love and reach out more. I hope you don’t in the process, curtail my tendencies to be upset with wrong teachings. That is also a necessary trait.

Cheers.

—–Original Message—–

From: Joe Bloggs

Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2010 3:24 PM

To: Teh, Ian

Cc: Teh, Ian;

Subject: Re: RE: Strange day !

I have not heard of Gordon Fee. I was hoping you’d forget about the “chat” but happy to do so. I am not sure if it would establish anything as I have a feeling it could be down to a dry theological approach to Christianity or an experiential approach, or a mixture of both. I don’t know but if you have an open mind to explore I am happy to share my experience.

Over the years, I feel the most fundamental thing is the love of God, His grace and how much we want to be close to Him that would define our experience of Him and His love which would drive our love for others and service for Him. I learn to be more accepting of how others wish to express their faith which if it doesn’t contradict the fundamental love of God and salvation through faith thing, I let them go.

The other thing I often stress is maturity. Let’s rise above all this differences and progress the Kingdom cause. As long as we live in thie imperfect world, there will be differences.

> Teh, Ian <IanTeh@email.com> wrote:

>

> Bro

> I’m planning to get a book by a guy called Gordon Fee, and read up

> some more on this.

> We should have a chat at some point – I remember we agreed to have a

> glass of red to talk about some events following X Men’s

> funeral about a year and a bit ago.

>

> There are some pretty fundamental points of difference between my

> upbringing and ICC-Cornerstone beliefs which barring any instructions

> from Gordon Fee will remain unresolved and potentially a source of

> considerations at some point in the future.

>

> Cheers

>

> —–Original Message—–

> From: Teh, Ian

> Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2010 10:51 AM

> To: Joe Bloggs

> Subject: RE: Strange day !

>

> Thanks bro for your counsel and encouragement – always appreciated.

> So should I say well done on the cholesterol? I think I will. Well done!

> May you keep up the good health management.

>

> I will heed your counsel. I just want to say that I have seen

> congregations getting into strife because of messages like what we

> heard on Sunday. Speaker’s was on balance, not so problematic. It was

> when Speaker Wife came on that it all took on a different shade and I must

> say I disagree with what she said, almost entirely.

> I have “let it slide”, as I have in the past but will always have my

> ears up as you well know.

> We move on as always.

>

> Cheers

>

> —–Original Message—–

> From: J Bloggs

> Sent: Tuesday, 9 November 2010 10:42 AM

> To: Teh, Ian

> Subject: Strange day !

>

>

> Hi Bro

>

> [deleted]

>

> You had been on my mind the past few days as a result of the Sunday

> sermon…I said to you on Sunday and I say to you again, just let it

> slide. You’re always going to get that odd thing here and there but I

> can understand Speaker’s own life journey and where he is right

> now is that I think his back is against the wall, he has run out of

> options and he can only rely on God and in the context of where he is,

> not by might, nor by power but by His Spirit…and God only knows what

> he is struggling through right now…

>

> God knows when and who needs a reminder like this every now and again.

> As much as I felt a bit concern during the sermon delivery, I thought

> to myself a few people I know of would probably need to hear it, quite

> literally.

>

> I had in the past been accused of “preaching”, announcing and saying

> things from the pulpit to direct an “attack” either directly or

> indirectly on someone in the congregation. I was always perplexed

> everytime (which is rare of course) I hear that allegation and felt it

> in my conscience that I had not so I moved on and trust that God is

> speaking to whomever and generally.

>

> Don’t be quick to comment but observe and monitor the reaction from

> the congregation and in this sort of cases, only mitigate if it

> becomes a problem. Otherwise, let’s just trust the maturity of our

> people and how the Lord will Himself look after His flock…As a

> preventative measure, you could bring it up with TF but I am afraid it

> is going to be difficult to manage every speaker in what they speak

> which is why I say that you will get this oddity every once in a while

> and this is not all bad in that it will test the maturity of our congregation.

>

> Anyway, sabar la…

>

> Take care Bro

>

Tongues A-Wagging


A speaker in church today seemed to suggest that unless one prays in tongues one is unlikely to get results. That is totally incongruous to what I understand to be what makes prayer effective. James 5 (verse 16, I just checked) for example, says the prayer of a righteous man in effective, not prayer of tongues.  Generally the emphasis on tongues was unbelievably preached as though it was a prevailing truth in the scriptures, when in fact only a small part dealt with that subject, which is probably indicative of its significance.

I am reminded such funny teachings will likely persist in the context of my church, where the underlying propensity to these things continue to amber away. I don’t know what to make of it. I know my quest to be better taught in the scriptures is even more justified now. Certainly, through my current studies I have been introduced to Gordon Fee, and his work on the subject (such as this) is probably my summer reading material.